The "Open source developers don’t care about UI" trope is incredibly insulting.

It’s like telling the forth runner across the finish line at a marathon they clearly don’t care about winning.

Nobody wants their app to look bad. We can and do look at other apps and try to follow trends. Trends change rapidly and UI development is difficult and time consuming.

@daniel I agree that open source devs do care for UIs, but in my view, they shouldn't necessarily follow trends. Following trends is often staying behind and seeing yourself forced to break compatibilities. We should have our own ideas, preferably long termed.

@daniel The problem is two-fold in my opinion: a lot of programmers aren't willing to find and invite UI designers who can do things that they cannot, but also, good designers are notoriously unwilling to contribute to FOSS without being paid.

@raucao the role of dedicated UI designers (or lack thereof) is overrated. For most utility apps it's perfectly fine to look at what's already out there. I know what I want my app to look like. It's the getting there that's hard. If anything we need more UI programmers not UI designers.

@daniel the generalization is strange because there are many type of open source projects, ranging from one single person doing things mainly for their own use, to thousands of developers working at Google.

Some of these can live a very long and succesful life with a bad UI. So do many closed source ones. And then, when there's a bad ui, it's not necessarily because developers don't care, maybe because they don't know how to do it, or their workflow and policies doesn't allow for it

@daniel UI design is also not an easy skill to learn. In an ecosystem where everyone is volunteering their time and effort, it’s important to remember that everyone is trying their best.

@daniel and, if I may say so as an ardent open source user, most apps DO have a good UI

@daniel And it comes mostly from people who change the design just when you get used to the previous design change.

Give me a simple UI/UX that just works, rather than one that I have to relearn every 3 months because there is some new design trend that everyone thinks they have to implement.

@daniel well what I think it's difficult for one single person to do everything alone.

@daniel at least open source devs don't ruin it for financial reasons

@daniel this coincidentally turned up in my feed the evening after I first saw your post!

https://puntarella.party/@mario/114230648734072459

@daniel I do think that hits on part of the issue, the "try to follow trends", this is an endless fight that has a constantly moving goal post. I think it's far more important to have a clear vision of what you're trying to achieve and adjust course as you realize certain assumptions you had don't apply in the real world.

@daniel

As a developer I've realized that the sad thing is not that I don't care about UI but that I just want something different from a UI. The knowledge and skills that make me a developer also give me different priorities and cost/benefits from UI

And if I'm writing code primarily for myself (which is what FLOSS developers often do) then of course I want to make something that suits me and people like me.

@daniel HIG was a pioneer in specifying a consistent guideline for UIs. Actually, most innovations begin in open source contexts---e.g., most research and standardization outcomes. Closed source projects just have more effort allocated to marketing to make people think they do innovate.

@daniel This, but mostly: people will complain loudly and bitterly about anything that doesn't work exactly like they've already decided it should... unless it comes from a megacorp, in which case any broken, fugly piece of crap is the best thing since sliced bread and a landmark of quality design.

@daniel That's just a nonsense saying from people never using FOSS in the first place.

The #Gnome experience e.g. is far superior to anything Windows has to offer. This project is indeed at the forefront of modern UI design, if you ask me.

@daniel
"Good looking" and "functional/working for me/everyone" are vastly different.
The thing is that people (sometimes me) want to open a program/app for the first time and understand everything at once, even if they never used anything else for what they want to do. There is the perception that one has defined the use case completely in the mind, and then the reality makes it clear that things are complicated, with more moving parts than thought. Thats the hour of UI/X criticism. ...