Quick reminder on the likely reason why Valve's New Steam Machine only supports #HDMI 2.0:

""At this time an open source HDMI 2.1 implementation is not possible without running afoul of the HDMI Forum requirements.""

This is what Alex Deucher, the maintainer of the amdgpu #kernel driver, said one and a half years ago here:

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/1417#note_2303163

And from the ticket it looks like the problem remains.

See also Alex's earlier comment from early 2021 in the ticket:

https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/drm/amd/-/issues/1417#note_830547

""HDMI 2.1 is not available on #Linux due to the HDMI Forum.""

#LinuxKernel #Valve #SteamMachine

@kernellogger Question, what feature are there in HDMI 2.1 that aren't covered in Display Port ?

If the HDMI Forum is being stupid, HDMI should just be let fall into irrelevance and replaced with DP.

@Sobex the reality is: Valve is making a machine for the current market designed among others for living rooms – and the TV standing there from what I've heard most of the time have HDMI.

@kernellogger @Sobex Are TVs without DisplayPort a thing? (asking sincerely out of absolute ignorance, this is far from my domain of expertise, but my non-smart TV has DP).

@kernellogger Yeah, HDMI is essentially a proprietary standard now. It should only be used as a last-resort fallback. Avoid building new setups which rely on it for better forward compat.

@kernellogger did anybody bring this to attention of EU regulators?

@whynothugo @kernellogger @Sobex Haven't ever seen a TV with DP around where I am.

@whynothugo @kernellogger @Sobex TVs almost never have DisplayPorts

@kernellogger bruh, i hope DP becomes the standard then, HDMI's stranglehold on consumer electronics is worrying when trying to build an open ecosystem

@joshmaybal well, not my area of expertise, but from what I see that is unlikely to happen unless something changes:

* HDMI for one reason or another is widespread in TVs and other consumer hardware for living rooms, so there must be strong reasons to use something else before hw manufactures targeting that market will switch.

* The problem is already ~four years old and the landscape did not change much.

@kernellogger Proprietary dogshit, as usual…

@whynothugo @kernellogger @Sobex Consumer TVs with DisplayPort are *not* a thing, at all.

@kernellogger if this even slightly makes LG and others consider including one DP on their consumer line of TVs, I would be so happy.

It really is about time TVs offered DP and both Sony and Microsoft were “brave” enough to include DP on their flagship consoles.

My LG has VRR and 144Hz and it isn’t even a current model. DP would be amazing to have in an era where gaming is normalised.

@kernellogger
And HDCP on HDMI is an insult. HDCP should never have existed.
DRM is evil and is more about controlling consumers than anti-piracy.
The HDMI forum should look at why Firewire isn't used now, despite being "better" for some things than USB.

@kernellogger @stereo as far as i can see it is only a problem for #AMD devies. #NVIDIA e.g. has a working #HDMI 2.1 support on linux. So AMD needs do change they things how they handle their licencing in the same way as Nvidia or #Valve can use a different hardware...

@DoKo @stereo sure, maybe AMD could move handling some stuff for this into the firmware, but that is something a lot of Open Source people would not be happy to see, as it restricts what you can do with your hardware.

@kernellogger @stereo yes. It is a thung how they manage it. The question would be: User HDMI 2.0 only but have full control or use a Firmware API and get the posibillity to use HDMI 2.1. I don't know how the handling is made to use AMD chips here but the comprimise may be vor AMD to implement a kind of switch so that programmers can choose. But for sure that may lead to a bigger (and maybe more expensive) and maybe conplexer semiconductor and driver structure.

@kernellogger Lucky for me, I don't care a bit about games. I see computer games as abuse of computer technology.

@kernellogger if everybody always only uses what everybody else uses nothing will ever change.
The new Valve SteamBox having DisplayPort and proprietary HDMI is a good start.
@Sobex

@whynothugo @kernellogger @Sobex I looked SO HARD for a TV with DP because mine is really only a monitor.

Couldn't really find one

@kernellogger I wish someone would make a feature complete DisplayPort to HDMI2.1 bridge chip, that way all the HDMI 2.1 magic crap is confined to an adapter and the HDMI forum can't keep ruining everyone's fun. I bought an adapter from Cable Matters that is almost perfect but falls on its face when trying to use VRR. It works for some modes and glitches out with the monitor shutting off on others. I was hopeful they'd fix it properly but then they put out a firmware that disabled VRR.

@kernellogger closed standards are not standards.

@kernellogger though they could have added an on-board HDMI to DisplayPort converter.

@karolherbst it comes with DP 1.4, it's just that its HDMI is limited to 2.0.

@kernellogger

@karolherbst @kernellogger That would increase the cost of every board (and take extra board space), for a feature few would need. The built-in HDMI port coming directly from the GPU should be enough for most.

@whynothugo @kernellogger @Sobex my non-smart TV doesn't have displayport, but it has 1 Scart port (useful for my wii and ps2) and 3 HDMI ports (and some other old ports I don't use). It's only 1080p60, but my eyesight has to focus deeply into the details to be able to notice the difference between 720 and 1080, so upgrading seems unappealing. That means no displayport here, at least for a few decades until the TV stops working

@PeterMotte

Yes, heaven forbid that people use a machine capable of mathematically simulating a world to mathematically simulate a world featuring wizards and goblins. Heaven forbid!

@kernellogger

@cesarb @kernellogger HDMI 2.0 can barely do 4K@60 Hz without loss in image quality. That's barely enough by today standards. Though on lower resolutions it should be fine and I assume people caring about high performance gaming will have their own rig anyway.

But the point is: HDMI 2.0 isn't great anymore already today.

@kernellogger @joshmaybal do any TVs have DP? What about HDMI splitters, switches, matrix, etc? Do DP versions exist?

@kernellogger I do not follow you. I've checked that again and again. So how did this message end up in my feed?
BTW: I still think computer games are a waste.
I need a computer for my work, and because it's a strong computer, it's automatically classified as a gaming computer. That just shows how nuts that industry has become.

@whynothugo @kernellogger @Sobex Yes, Displayport is kind of a rare feature on cheap TVs even today and HDMI is on all of them including mine, well and my old monitor I use for many years dorsn't have it either :/

@PeterMotte likely it showed up because somebody you follow boosted by post; or your instance shows you "trending" post; or something like that

@kernellogger But I've checked that. It might have been a "trending" post.

@kernellogger Seems like the smart answer would be to give it DisplayPort instead and let people who chose wrong live the dongle life.

@BalooUriza the device from what I've heard has a DP output in addition to the HDMI output

@kernellogger I checked it out, the person in question just had it boosted into their feed. I found the person who they followed and boosted it.

Peter followed `@selea@linux.pizza` and they also boosted your post. There's no mystery here :)