Update: we’ve raised almost twice the target amount! Thank you all ❤️ Making progress updates in the replies.

To all people of #India who care about #SoftwareFreedom, #OpenData, and #Privacy…

I’ve taken over 600 photos of menus at various restaurants and cafés in multiple cities.[1] For 6000 INR (63.5 USD; around ₹10/photo) I can upload them all using #MapComplete, linking them to #OpenStreetMap and allowing you to check out more menus using #Libre software (MapComplete). I’ll post updates here.

If you like the sound of that, please send your donations to my bank account, and mention “menu photos” as the reason. (My PayPal and UPI are both down, sorry.)

I’m unemployed and I don’t really know what I’d rather do than improve the #DigitalCommons, so your participation helps me put dinner on the table.

Please let me know of any questions or objections. Also, is there any other libre data service you’d like me to upload to? (I’m not sure if it’s suitable for Wikimedia Commons…)

[1] Delhi, Noida, Bangalore, Gurgaon, Lucknow, Kolkata, Jalpaiguri, Mumbai, Madurai, Kanpur, Meerut, Chennai, Bir (Himachal Pradesh), Pune, Kochi, and Mangalore.

#FOSS #OpenSource

@contrapunctus Hey 👋. Since you're a #OpenStreetMap contributor from #India, I want to ask you something. What MOI does OpenStreetMap show to people in India ?

MOI - Map of India

@theakashmondal “OpenStreetMap” is a database, and databases don’t “show” anything - certainly not graphical maps 😉

The task of “showing” is for data renderers - like the map at https://openstreetmap.org, or the one at https://openstreetmap.in (compare the borders 🙂), or CoMaps, OsmAnd, etc. Each renderer can choose how to display the OSM database, including what boundaries to show.

Your actual question is probably answered here: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Disputed_territories

Also relevant: https://codeberg.org/comaps/comaps/issues/2964

@contrapunctus

https://www.openstreetmap.in is what I was looking for. I can locate my house with it. That's positive. Before messaging you, I tried Organic Maps and CoMaps. My main problem is, I'm not going use a navigation software with that disgraceful MOI.

Do you know any Android client (data renderer) that shows the MOI from India's POV ?

@theakashmondal Neither osm.org nor OpenStreetMap.in are really made for users. One is mainly for contributors, and the other is mainly a proof of concept.

CoMaps, Organic Maps, and OsmAnd are the main apps made for end-users, and what I usually recommend.

Note that the boundaries these apps are showing is the present ground truth. India hasn’t controlled those territories in 70-80 years (see Line of Control and Line of actual control).

While I was the one who created that issue in the CoMaps repo, it was mostly so CoMaps and its users aren’t subject to government bullying. If it were up to me, that law would be quashed. Do we want our maps to show the reality, or do we want to see some state-mandated political fiction instead? 👀

@contrapunctus

I was thinking about what reply would be appropriate.

On one hand, I understand the motto CoMaps/Organic Maps/etc. are going with. A map should represent the ground reality of that place. It should guide people earnestly.

On the other hand, a map is a very useful tool for propaganda whose effects can be felt in the populace in the long term.

(1/3)

@contrapunctus

We as a country made mistakes in our past. Mistakes the scarred us till date. We lost parts of OUR sovereignty to a terrorist and communist regime. We were not strong enough in our past, we are today. But maybe the risks are too high for our citizens to bear, too high that hinders our development and progress as a nation. But tomorrow, tomorrow is a new day.

Every child, citizen of this nation should aspire to correct the mistakes of the past, I do.

(2/3)

@contrapunctus

And every time, a citizen of our nation uses and prefers a map that displays those mistakes, a citizen that smears it off and moves on, is one less citizen that we'll have, in the domino effect, in our favour when we will eventually fix our mistakes.

We cannot and must not take this lightly, not at least in our own nation.

(3/3)

@contrapunctus For now, I would recommend #mappls for those, in #India, who don't want to use #googlemaps or #applemaps and want to see the borders from India's POV, until CoMaps/Organic Maps/etc. finds some middle-ground.

Also, Mappls is #MadeinIndia and a provides a really good navigation service.

https://www.mappls.com/

@theakashmondal Mappls seems to be yet another proprietary map service with proprietary map data. Those who help improve it will help a company establish a monopoly (same case as Google Maps), and the data will only be usable in the limited ways that company will allow. As with all proprietary technology, the users will become slaves to the whims of the owner company.

In comparison, OpenStreetMap is under a libre (“open”) data license, so no company can monopolize it, it helps everyone, and the data will be available without restrictions, forever. That’s why there’s a huge global community invested in using and improving it…including the Government of India and quite a few Indian companies (Ola, Zomato, Swiggy, Zepto, Delhivery…) 🙂

If you feel so strongly about borders, you’re welcome to help CoMaps and/or OsmAnd and/or Cartes.app implement “localization” for borders, either by contributing code, or by putting up a bounty for the feature.

Rendering of boundaries is relatively easy to change (OpenStreetMap.in is proof), but changing a dataset from a proprietary license to a libre license is extremely rare and unlikely.

Got ₹1500 of ₹6000! Thank you, and please keep it coming! 🙂

10 photos uploaded 🙂

Sub91, Kashmere Gate, Delhi (2 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=77.22894575000001&lat=28.667353249999998#way/1349967265

Chicago Pizza, Lajpat Nagar, Delhi (2 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=77.2399262&lat=28.5707275#node/6616640803

Haldiram’s, KSR Bengaluru Railway Station, Bangalore (2 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=77.5700777&lat=12.97749#node/13159001732

Dominos, Pattanagere Metro Station, Bangalore (2 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=77.4981916&lat=12.9245593#node/7195158623

Woody’s Pizzeria, Guru Nanak Market, Delhi (2 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=77.2377915&lat=28.56297875#way/1411191551

@libreinator @contrapunctus unlikely IMO. Why do you think so?

Thanks for the ₹500! We’re now at ₹2000 out of ₹6000 🙂

@libreinator @contrapunctus it does but that doesn't mean they are not being earnest.

40 photos uploaded! (50 total)

Mukharuchi, Beleghata, Kolkata (1 photo) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=88.3886188&lat=22.564274#node/13290284951

Drumstick, Beleghata, Kolkata (7 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=88.3956536&lat=22.5640799#node/13290284932

Jalpaiguri Club Company, Jalpaiguri (8 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=88.7312034&lat=26.517246#node/14166327096

Hotel Mauli, Navi Mumbai (22 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=73.00608748701757&lat=19.083179454362096#node/14166396906

Barako, Versova, Mumbai (2 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/cafes_and_pubs.html?z=15&lon=72.8156027&lat=19.1293853#node/13377499826

@disaster2life @contrapunctus

> "find some middle ground", I hate this issue is still somethinf that riles up nationalists,...

I'm not quite sure what do you mean by this, and I don't want to make assumptions. Could you elaborate ?

And yes, I'm fully aware that LOC and LAC are the present day middle grounds, for now. What I'm arguing is that, a person IN India (like you and me) should not be subjected to the distorted map of our country when using a navigation software, IN India.

(1/2)

@disaster2life

And this is why I'm saying that I recommend Mappls over present OSM data renderers.
https://www.openstreetmap.in/ is a good choice but as mentioned by @contrapunctus, it is mainly a proof of concept.

Now, if you and @libreinator (are Indian citizens, which I presume) are fine with OSM data renderers showing the distorted map of our country, IN our country, which is by definition very illegal, then may I remind you to the Unanimous Parliamentary Resolution of 22 February, 1994.

(2/2)

@disaster2life @contrapunctus @libreinator @tusharhero

> in their own message, they claim anyone who fails to recognise the complete Indian claim is not a Citizen,...

If you are talking about me, I presume (inform me if I'm wrong), then no, I'm not claiming any of your above BS.

You know what, just read this, okay.

https://mstdn.social/@theakashmondal/117241614845825849

[@disaster2life could you please do me a favour and forward my message to @libreinator]

@theakashmondal @disaster2life @contrapunctus @libreinator can you stop mentioning me.

@disaster2life @contrapunctus @libreinator

Bro, your words aren't helping. Please elaborate.

> My existence is ruled illegal* by the Indian state in my religion, identity, and my politics,...

Give me details.

> ...I do not care for what the Indian Parliament thinks.

What do you think ?

@tusharhero I'm sorry. I'll make sure from next time 👍.

@contrapunctus Hey congratulations 🥳 for achieving your target.

14 photos uploaded! (total 64)

Billu’s Hut, Netaji Subhash Place, Delhi (4 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=77.1492711&lat=28.6929344#node/13410744465

Café Crew Brew, Delhi (6 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/cafes_and_pubs.html?z=15&lon=77.1510447&lat=28.693423#node/13410744483

Eggspert, Delhi (2 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=77.3064589&lat=28.6596915#node/13397793460

Romeo Rolls, Delhi (2 photos) https://mapcomplete.org/food.html?z=15&lon=77.3064993&lat=28.6597774#node/13397815968

@contrapunctus 🥳🥳🥳