I would be interested to hear specific recommendations, from your own personal experience, for a computer to act as a low-powered server:
* relatively small form factor
* low power consumption
* amd64
* runs Linux nicely (i.e. all hardware supported)
* available to buy new in the UK, but without needing an account manager / any sort of nonsense like that
* has ongoing firmware updates from the manufacturer, via fwupd
It doesn't need more than 16GB of RAM, nor a beefy processor.
Thank you!
@neil I bought a used/refurbished ThinkCenter box with 16GB Ram on eBay a few months ago when computers were still a bit affordable. Works flawlessly with Debian. No fiddling necessary and without the hassle of a Raspberry Pi or so. Small-ish form factor
have good luck with raspberry pi but have also used tinkerboard and orange pi in the past. they were ok but pi is a more mature ecosystem.
@neil I'm interested in something like this as well. If someone shares privately or you find something, could you please share?
@neil haven't checked, that might be the one problem if you buy refurbished. Otoh question is how many significant firmware bugs are left.
I liked the option cause those are business machines so they did get a lot of work in their lifetime. I specifically bought an oldish version cause I don't need the fancy new stuff but YMMV of course
@neil Depends what your exact cut-offs for 'small' and 'low' are, but I have an Azena from PC Specialist which I use every day (as a desktop but it could work as a server too).
Draws about 60w, less when idle
150x150x60mm
Quiet most of the time (unless I fire off a particularly intensive CPU-bound process)
I think firmware updates come via fwupd - I get a pop-up notification and just click 'install' (I have fwupd installed and running).
For this, I probably need to buy new (one of the line items on my post :)).
@neil Would definitely recommend a ThinkCentre Mini. I have several that I purchased second hand and they're well supported by Linux, compact, quiet, etc. and get firmware updates via fwupdmgr. I'm unsure where you buy them new though, that may require some hunting around.
Update: Ah, looks like you can buy direct from Lenovo and from a variety of other online sellers (eg, Laptops Direct).
cc: @tante
@neil Not new, but I have a little stash of Lenovo ThinkCentres here which do me just fine as little office servers for various things.
@neil I use a Dell Micro 3050 with Libreboot firmware as a home server. Almost completely silent (HDD is louder), very low power, plentiful replacement parts, small and cute. Everything on it runs OK with Debian. Except the fwupd (it got it's own install system), it checks all your requirements.
Directly from @libreleah at https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-3050-micro.html
when you say "all hardware supported" is that "relevant server hardware" or "all-all hardware"?
(I don't care if my servers have unsupported bluetooth or audio-chipsets 😆)
For my on-LAN "servers" at home, they're just older laptops (thus amd64, fairly trim form-factor, and lower power consumption than your average desktop)
So you're not asking for much then? ;) NSFW clip from "The Expanse" (depending on where you work).
sensitive media
Yes, which is why I've asked for specific recommendations, to help narrow it down :)
I've been using a mini PC as my home router for a little while, it's a BosGame brand with an N100 CPU, 16GB RAM and an acceptable SSD for storage, and two wired Ethernet ports. You can find similar ones with different specs. I've used Beelink ones as media PCs too and they advertise Windows but they run Linux nicely.
For my NAS I went more home built, a CWWK motherboard (N150) in a small NAS case with 5 HDD bays. Works great too.
@neil I admit I haven't checked in a while, I can look into it.
What are you worried about with regards to firmware updates? New vulnerabilities getting fixed?
I am sorry for being grumpy, but if you do not know if your machine has ongoing firmware updates from the manufacturer, via fwupd, then I'm sorry, but it does not meet the requirements here.
@CppGuy @waltbaldwin @neil yeah, which left me with the obvious question “why AMD64”? I would presume most of what Neil wants to run is either available in armbian or trivial to rebuild?
@luis_in_brief @CppGuy @waltbaldwin
I have plenty of arm machines here, but for these, I'd prefer amd64.
> What are you worried about with regards to firmware updates?
That, without it, I may struggle to get through a UK cyber security accreditation.
How curious… my device (Framework Laptop 13 _AMD Ryzen 7040Series_) gets regular OEM fw updates while running Fedora, which does not use fwupd.
Which I had not thought about previously. Time to read more! thanks for the prompt/rabbit hole!
@Amgine Oh, there may be other ways of getting firmware updates too! I'm just familiar with Debian and fwupd.
@neil I have checked and it does get updates via fwupd (confirmed with fwupdmgr get-devices, it even shows the update I have applied this morning but not rebooted yet).
So I think Ubuntu just puts a GUI over it, like it does for apt and do-release-upgrade.
@neil From my personal experience, I'd recommend a "small form factor" Dell desktop. They have firmware updates through fwupd (UEFI capsule updates), and if you look at the messages during these updates, they're kinda like laptops (with EC); the external power brick is AFAIK the same as their laptops. You can add the optional VGA port for a server-like experience (no BMC though, they're desktops after all). No idea about UK availability, I'd expect they're easily available.
I was going to suggest using the list of vendors from the LVFS project, but that doesn't actually help much.
@neil Any interest in a framework 12 mainboard (13th gen i5, 2p8e)? Firmware updates come regularly via fwupdate.
Main downside is you would need a USB NIC and DDR5, although 8gb isn't ruinous.
You can buy the kit new of course. Or a FW13 mainboard.
I'd prefer not to build my own here - and I need quite a few!
@neil there are some printable cluster cases available. But yes, a little hacky for the professional market.
Yep! and that's what I will be researching… (And, while I like my Framework, I know nothing about the Company's other offerings, or if they have products which meets your specification. I am pretty sure Purism does, and I am strongly supportive of that SPC. Neither, I expect, are relatively inexpensive.)
@neil There's the Byte mini pc from @starlabssystems who are UK based, though prices on those seem to have got a bit 'unfortunate' since all the RAM and SSD price traumas of late :-(
Interesting! Thank you. And yes, that is at the rather high end price for my needs, for a small, low powered, server...
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Ideally not, but if there's a really good option, then I'd consider it.
@neil I have a Dell Optiplex with a recent Intel i7 in it. They come from eBay office clearance people fairly cheaply.
It's quiet, doesn't draw much power and has run continuously for over a year.
@neil I can check to see if it's still the case for this hardware, but they certainly used to come through regularly.
This is on Ubuntu, which I believe uses fwupd.
@neil @skylark13 I use the Beelink for my Wirken spec:
https://gebruder.ottenheimer.app/wirken/hardware.html#fern
They do not support fwupd and explain here:
Starlabs has a little nuc shaped computer, which definitely fulfils the requirements.
@ starlabssystems@mastodon.social
@neil I remain a big fan of using old laptops for low-power servers (with external usb for drives, although you have to make sure the chipset of the enclosure isn't garbage). My latitude e7240 from 2013 has aged out of firmware updates, but my 2019 through 2021-era laptops (5400/5410) are still getting firmware updates via fwupd.
@neil One of the Tiny Mini Micro types would be ideal. I have 5 of the buggers now! https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimicro-home-lab-revolution/
@neil @flyingpenguin Well that's disappointing 😕
And, coincidentally, someone posted a link to this, which hits some of my buttons but not all and I thought it might possibly suit your spec: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt-research/mnt-station
I have no info about the co.
@Amgine A wonderful company, as far as I can tell! Niche products, made with love and care.
@neil
Dell Optiplex 7010 is 13th Gen Intel, so should probably be getting support updates and Dell supports LVFS.
Or the Asus NUC Pro range, I believe they have LVFS support.